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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:47 am 
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robgee9 wrote:
For certain? You were driving the bus?

If the cyclist is weaving, there IS no safe distance, because the biker is not there, By the time the biker -- illegally -- switches lanes, it's probably too late for that bus to stop, because the biker has cut in half the stiopping distance that the second bus was leaving behind the first bus. You can hardly say it would have hit it regardless of the motorcycle -- how do you know?




Bus hit bus. Motorcycle in between. Bus didn't just hit motorcycle and not bus in front. Ergo, motorcycle not there the bus still hits bus. The reasoning for stopping short was not because of the motorcycle but even in front of the bus that it was wedged between. Even that bus hit another bus in front.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:59 am 
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I'm sorry, I don't think you know.

If the guy was recorded weaving on camera, that's what we know. He weaved between two buses? Suicidal.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:13 pm 
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robgee9 wrote:
I'm sorry, I don't think you know.

If the guy was recorded weaving on camera, that's what we know. He weaved between two buses? Suicidal.


"Yesterday, an accident involving two buses and a motorcyclist inside the Lincoln Tunnel snarled Manhattan-bound traffic for hours. Now there are more details about what happened inside: An NYPD source tells the Daily News that "The motorcyclist was riding between two of the buses... When the first bus stopped for traffic, the second bus slammed the motorcyclist from behind, pinning him against the first bus."

According to the Post, "One NJ Transit bus rear-ended another at around 7:26 a.m., pushing it into weaving biker Keith Nystrom, after he cut off the front bus in the New York-bound center tube about a quarter-mile from the Manhattan side, witnesses said. Nystrom, 46, of Wayne, NJ, was pulled underneath the bus and pinned against the roadway." A surveillance video reportedly shows Nystrom weaving between the lanes."

I put the whole thing in, even about him weaving in and out of traffic. Stupid yes, but apparently did not cause one bus from hitting another. He just happened to be between them when they collided. He bobbed when he should have weaved.

So besides his suicidal behavior (and we've all done stupid things on two wheels) my point is that the buses were too close.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:28 pm 
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My point is, if he weaved in between the buses, he closed or cut in half the braking space that the second bus was leaving. Bobbed instead of weaved? You have no idea.

Imagine you're the driver of that second bus. You're leaving whatever, 200 feet between you and the bus in front of you. Suddenly, dickhead on his motorcycle weaves in front of you. Now -- before you have time to back off from the motorcycle because he's cut off your buffer -- the first bus brakes because of traffic. Dickhead brakes. You brake. Disaster.

Is this the way it happened? I don't know. But if he wasn't weaving, I would say you're probably right. I'll be interested to know what the final investigation determines. At the minimum this guy is guilty of breaking the lane law inside the tunnel.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:55 pm 
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robgee9 wrote:
My point is, if he weaved in between the buses, he closed or cut in half the braking space that the second bus was leaving. Bobbed instead of weaved? You have no idea.

Imagine you're the driver of that second bus. You're leaving whatever, 200 feet between you and the bus in front of you. Suddenly, dickhead on his motorcycle weaves in front of you. Now -- before you have time to back off from the motorcycle because he's cut off your buffer -- the first bus brakes because of traffic. Dickhead brakes. You brake. Disaster.

Is this the way it happened? I don't know. But if he wasn't weaving, I would say you're probably right. I'll be interested to know what the final investigation determines. At the minimum this guy is guilty of breaking the lane law inside the tunnel.


Okay you win. The bus behind was traveling at a safe distance. Not.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Your ability to psychically move to a differnt time and space is to be admired and envied.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:00 pm 
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robgee9 wrote:
Your ability to psychically move to a differnt time and space is to be admired and envied.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Bravo Vesparazzi, I appreciate the time and effort that went into your PowerPoint presentation.

If the front bus stopped short WITHOUT the bike there, the trailing bus might have had time to stop, that was my point. And how can we really know unless we were the drivers? Speed is a big unknown, and hopefully the video will put this all to rest, and possibly prove what a complete moron the cyclist was, as reported.

Otherwise, you and I will have to duel, pistols at 30 paces, if you like.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Isn't changing lanes in the tunnel forbidden? I know that's the case for the Holland tunnel.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:52 pm 
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robgee9 wrote:
Bravo Vesparazzi, I appreciate the time and effort that went into your PowerPoint presentation.

If the front bus stopped short WITHOUT the bike there, the trailing bus might have had time to stop, that was my point. And how can we really know unless we were the drivers? Speed is a big unknown, and hopefully the video will put this all to rest, and possibly prove what a complete moron the cyclist was, as reported.

Otherwise, you and I will have to duel, pistols at 30 paces, if you like.


Oy, you flunked physics Robert. So you think that hitting the motorcycle in between them caused the bus in back to speed up? If anything wouldn't it (motorcycle) if anything, cause some reduction in speed and not an increase? I think it at best had no effect and absent the motorcycle the back bus hits the front bus as it in fact did.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Oy VEY 'razzi!

No, what I meant by speed was what the speed of the flow of traffic was at the time of the accident.

One more time! The cyclist APPARENTLY switched lanes -- illegally -- into a space between the buses that APPARENTLY may have been too small to be safe, cutting down on the available braking time for the second bus!

Thank you, and enjoy your evening!


P.S. I can provide the pistols, if you like.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:08 pm 
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robgee9 wrote:
Oy VEY 'razzi!

No, what I meant by speed was what the speed of the flow of traffic was at the time of the accident.

One more time! The cyclist APPARENTLY switched lanes -- illegally -- into a space between the buses that APPARENTLY may have been too small to be safe, cutting down on the available braking time for the second bus!

Thank you, and enjoy your evening!


P.S. I can provide the pistols, if you like.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:15 pm 
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"No, what I meant by speed was what the speed of the flow of traffic was at the time of the accident. "

speed is relative to distance. You hit the stopped object in front of you you are going to fast to stop in the available distance. Pure physics.

"One more time! The cyclist APPARENTLY switched lanes -- illegally"

Irrelevant to issue of not enough space between buses.

"cutting down on the available braking time for the second bus!"

Yes is it hit only motorcycle and not bus in front of motorcycle. It hit both - my exact point. Cutting down space only between it and motorcycle not bus in front.

"P.S. I can provide the pistols, if you like"

pistols are for girls - knives it is

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:55 pm 
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My prayers to this poor rider.
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Regardless of blame.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:03 pm 
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vesparazzi wrote:
robgee9 wrote:
Bravo Vesparazzi, I appreciate the time and effort that went into your PowerPoint presentation.

If the front bus stopped short WITHOUT the bike there, the trailing bus might have had time to stop, that was my point. And how can we really know unless we were the drivers? Speed is a big unknown, and hopefully the video will put this all to rest, and possibly prove what a complete moron the cyclist was, as reported.

Otherwise, you and I will have to duel, pistols at 30 paces, if you like.


Oy, you flunked physics Robert. So you think that hitting the motorcycle in between them caused the bus in back to speed up? If anything wouldn't it (motorcycle) if anything, cause some reduction in speed and not an increase? I think it at best had no effect and absent the motorcycle the back bus hits the front bus as it in fact did.

Gentlemen – how about if the both of you find out what his name is, what hospital he is staying in and send him a get-well card? This’ll produce two positive effects – immediately: it’ll make him feel good to know that others care, while at the same time remove the stress from your friendship to each other.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:16 am 
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I've rode into NY during the morning rush and it is just SO dangerous. Everyone is driving for themselves with no regard for others. Very rarely do I see any type of courtesy and nothing but aggressive driving. Mix that with people that choose to not to share the road or simply don't look and you get a recipe for disaster. A rider switching lanes in a tunnel and causing such a big accident just makes the rest of us look even worse. I'm sure he or she will recover and hopefully learn from it. Getting in between those buses is just nuts. They leave less than a foot between them as they enter the tunnel which means that a bike couldn't have fit. If the bike didn't fit in between as it entered the tunnel then there shouldn't have been a motorcycle sandwich mid tunnel or at any point in the tunnel.

I do agree with vesparazzi though about the whole following distance. Once in the tunnel there should be a good cushion of space to prevent accidents. But that cruiser is at least 6.5ft long so that could be a big part of that cushion.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:38 am 
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njrentascooter wrote:
I've rode into NY during the morning rush and it is just SO dangerous. Everyone is driving for themselves with no regard for others. Very rarely do I see any type of courtesy and nothing but aggressive driving. Mix that with people that choose to not to share the road or simply don't look and you get a recipe for disaster. A rider switching lanes in a tunnel and causing such a big accident just makes the rest of us look even worse. I'm sure he or she will recover and hopefully learn from it. Getting in between those buses is just nuts. They leave less than a foot between them as they enter the tunnel which means that a bike couldn't have fit. If the bike didn't fit in between as it entered the tunnel then there shouldn't have been a motorcycle sandwich mid tunnel or at any point in the tunnel.

I do agree with vesparazzi though about the whole following distance. Once in the tunnel there should be a good cushion of space to prevent accidents. But that cruiser is at least 6.5ft long so that could be a big part of that cushion.



My point wasn't about the biker switching lanes or if it was was to be between buses. The simple point was if it was as reported (and it may not be), then there was not enough spaces between the buses even absent the bike. I've witnessed this myself hundreds of times.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:18 am 
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ZygoteLittle wrote:
Gentlemen – how about if the both of you find out what his name is, what hospital he is staying in and send him a get-well card?

That's a nice thought, and if he wasn't taped swerving between lanes, I might agree. But if that's true, he's an idiot, and could have gotten others killed in addition to himself. He's very lucky. He doesn't need a get well card, he needs a DMV ban from ever riding on two wheels again.

Sure, we've all made dumb mistakes, myself included. But how many have led to this? We all know who these guys are -- hot dogging around town, impatient, swerving through traffic at high speed. I curse when I see those guys because they really do ruin it for the rest of us.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:21 am 
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vesparazzi wrote:
The simple point was if it was as reported (and it may not be), then there was not enough spaces between the buses even absent the bike.


OK, then, if true, what was the bike doing swerving into a space that was already too small?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:06 am 
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robgee9 wrote:
vesparazzi wrote:
The simple point was if it was as reported (and it may not be), then there was not enough spaces between the buses even absent the bike.


OK, then, if true, what was the bike doing swerving into a space that was already too small?


if that was done then being stupid but does not change the insufficient space between the buses absent the bike. That was my point which for some reason you obstinately refused to see. Whatever else happened, and wherever the fault lies, all I was saying from the reporting and from experience is that the buses in the LT travel like a convoy too close for their speeds.

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