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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:14 am 
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Scooter Swat teams are needed. Way too many scooters are stolen! I know...ouch! It is a felony! Just have your paperwork in order and purchase from a reliable source....hence, everyone is happy.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:52 am 
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Are they checking VINs on ALL parked scooters or only the illegally parked ones?

I haven't checked, but, would '74 or '80 Lambrettas have an external VIN? Would these technically be considered 'vintage' (over 25 years old) and not fall under this requirement?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:59 am 
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Billyrocka wrote:
Are they checking VINs on ALL parked scooters or only the illegally parked ones?


From the sounds of it they are only going after the illegally parked one, and/or the ones with no plates on. I have a feeling that if you were parked legally and had your plate on they would probably just walk right past.

I know it's Brooklyn, but I saw a cop walk past my bike the other day (I was across the street), parked in between a meter and a "no standing" sign. He looked at the plate, walked to the front and looked at the inspection sticker and then walked away. I wasn't technically parked legally since I was in between the meter, and not paying it, and the sign (there is a space there because of a massive tree right up against the curb), but it seemed like all he cared about was that I was in the street, and the the plate and the inspection sticker were there/current, and once he saw that he kept going...

So I think they are looking at the illegally parked bikes and going after every other possibly infraction to boot...

Billyrocka wrote:
I haven't checked, but, would '74 or '80 Lambrettas have an external VIN? Would these technically be considered 'vintage' (over 25 years old) and not fall under this requirement?


I'm pretty sure Andrea has answered this before (can't find the post though) but I think pre-1976 bikes, or something like that, don't have VINs and are grandfatherd in. Don't know about the 1980 one though...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:32 pm 
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When NY's finest are doing traffic and parking duty they look at all vehicles and check inspection stickers, registration stickers and plates. They are not out to target scooters or motorcycles. Their job is just to give out summonses for any type of violation.

BTW: That's how Son of Sam was caught.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:53 pm 
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From newyorkscooters@yahoogroups.com email:

Quote:
as per the detectives who towed our scoots, my husband and i them at the 10th precinct (chelsea) to discuss the matter of our towed scooters. we thought we would get a hefty ticket and instructions on how to retrieve our scooters from the pound.


WE WERE ARRESTED.


no joke. the charge is for altering or removing VIN plate from scooter. they held us for an hour while they processed a shitton of paperwork. fingreprinted, mugshots, cuffs - the whole arrest process. they said they realized they didn't think it was warranted for us, but that they had no choice but to follow procedure as what we did was a felony. though the "crime" is a felony they said we'll very likely get a violation which is a misdemeanor. we have to appear at court at the end of the month AND we have to apply for entirely new VIN plates from the DMV. we can't get our scooters from the Queens tow pound until all of this is processed, at least 1 month.


one of the detectives admit what we all already know - the city is doing anything to generate revenue. this unit started towing VIN-less scooters about 6 weeks ago and so far 30-35 riders have been arrested for no VIN plate! he said there was some poor guy coming in the next day for the exact same arrest, and they have about 5 a week.


they didn't tell us they were going to arrest us when they called us to set up the appointment to meet at the precinct.


the detective even went to so far as to visit the Vespa SoHo repair shop to investigate how many scooters were VIN-less.


sort your VIN issues now. if you removed your VIN, i strongly recommend you put it back on, or contact the DMV to request a new one.


good luck all.


Previously they had written:
Quote:
hey all -wanted to give you a heads up that me and my husbands scooters were towed (chains cut) by the NYPD and brought to the local precinct. �apparently, the missing VIN plates justified the tow.
> we were contacted shorty thereafter by a detective from the NYPD automotive crime division. we're have to go there on tuesday to pay a pricey ticket and provide all sorts of evidence that the scooters are ours (proof of sale, VIN plates, registration, etc). Im sure it'll be a major pain in the ass.


Unreal!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:29 pm 
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Nice

When did the law change to vins have to be visible. My 87 has it on the frame.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:48 am 
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papafern wrote:
Nice

When did the law change to vins have to be visible. My 87 has it on the frame.


I think that that question still has yet to be answered.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 am 
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I know that there are technicalities to this but you really can't blame the authorities for nailing people with out vins. Someone could be riding around with your stolen bike. They only way to establish ownership is the registration through the vin. It's really for your protection.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:14 am 
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4n6iscool wrote:
papafern wrote:
Nice

When did the law change to vins have to be visible. My 87 has it on the frame.


I think that that question still has yet to be answered.

My bike's VIn is not visible. It's under a plastic panel under the glove box.
People that remove them should be punished if caught.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:55 am 
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The whole point of the Federal law on VIN tampering was to combat auto theft and fraud.

Auto theft rings would buy the Vin plate off of wrecks along with the title. Then they would steal the same year, make and model vehicle and switch the VIN plate and re title it.

On late model autos the VIN # is etched onto many of the parts of the car to combat theft and fraud.

It is all good!!! It is not a conspiracy against scooters. Don't mess with the feds!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:06 am 
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Whatever reason they had to come up with the law was probably to benefit good people. But of course blowberg used it to get money.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:31 pm 
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4n6iscool wrote:
papafern wrote:
Nice

When did the law change to vins have to be visible. My 87 has it on the frame.


I think that that question still has yet to be answered.



I found this on the forum here.

http://www.nyscooterclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92213#p92213

Quote:
Visible VIN plates/Manufacturers labels are required on all vehicles with a manufacture date post 1 January 2006. Any vehicle with a manufacture date before then does not have to have that same VIN plate/manufacturers label.

I'll explain, in a basic way, why visible VIN plate requirements changed on this date.

On 1 January 2006, the Federal authorities reclassified 2 wheeled vehicles. Prior to this, some small engine vehicles were exempt from some Federal code (the VIN bit being known as CFR, Title 49-part 565). Our scooters no longer got the same exemptions they used to get, so they all required the new Federally mandated manufacturers labelling, which includes a visible VIN. The new classifications were known way before this date, so some Manufacturers started the labelling process early, some didn't.

This vehicle reclassification is also what lead some people to believe that 2-strokes were banned. They are not. They were just reclassified, and from that date were no longer exempt from the the EPA testing.

As a reminder for all those thinking about removing their VIN plate, scratching it or sticking tape over it, any of the above obscuring of that plate is a class 6 felony.

"For Class 6 felonies, the jury or court may choose imprisonment for one to five years or jail for up to 12 months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both. "

Andrea

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:39 pm 
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Has anybody been arrested for covering their VIN?

FYI - I watched the police try to find the VIN (including attempt to pry open the seat) on an old ET2, but could not. It was parked on the sidewalk, they had the flatbed parked next to it and they left it...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:52 pm 
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I am still trying to figure out if leaving the factory cover installed is violating something?
I hate getting rain and dirt into the steering column.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:16 am 
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crazyinnyc wrote:
I found this on the forum here.

http://www.nyscooterclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92213#p92213

Quote:
Visible VIN plates/Manufacturers labels are required on all vehicles with a manufacture date post 1 January 2006. Any vehicle with a manufacture date before then does not have to have that same VIN plate/manufacturers label.

I'll explain, in a basic way, why visible VIN plate requirements changed on this date.

On 1 January 2006, the Federal authorities reclassified 2 wheeled vehicles. Prior to this, some small engine vehicles were exempt from some Federal code (the VIN bit being known as CFR, Title 49-part 565). Our scooters no longer got the same exemptions they used to get, so they all required the new Federally mandated manufacturers labelling, which includes a visible VIN. The new classifications were known way before this date, so some Manufacturers started the labelling process early, some didn't.

This vehicle reclassification is also what lead some people to believe that 2-strokes were banned. They are not. They were just reclassified, and from that date were no longer exempt from the the EPA testing.

As a reminder for all those thinking about removing their VIN plate, scratching it or sticking tape over it, any of the above obscuring of that plate is a class 6 felony.

"For Class 6 felonies, the jury or court may choose imprisonment for one to five years or jail for up to 12 months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both. "

Andrea


Is there a NY regulation/law that covers this? Can't seem to find it.

And can the cops tell the difference betwen a 2004 and a 2006 scooter?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:03 am 
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Does that technically mean if I cover my bike with a bike cover I am obscuring the vin?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:19 am 
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scriber17 wrote:
Does that technically mean if I cover my bike with a bike cover I am obscuring the vin?

No, although even if you cover your bike, you should leave the license plate visible.

Brendan

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:37 am 
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That's retarted. So if u have a stolen bike, u can park it in the street with a cover as long as u have a legal plate on it from a different scooter and the plate is visible

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:12 am 
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Feel free to do whatever you want to do, Fernando , but if someone is concerned that covering their bike could get them in trouble because it amounts to "covering" the otherwise exposed VIN, the most sensible way to reduce that concern is to leave the plate exposed, so the police are not looking for the VIN in the first place. It is pretty clear that the VIN issue has arisen, not out of a concern that scooters were stolen, but out of a desire to punish people who pull their plates, so, although there is some risk of the scenario you describe, I don't see that as a major problem.

Brendan

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:12 am 
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Vin.... no Vin, cover.... no cover, sidewalk parking, between car parking, Plates... plates removed.... AAARGH!!!! Once a year this all comes up... The reality is IT DOESN'T MATTER If you're illegal, you're taking a chance. I just play the odds!! 8)

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